Well I don't need to worry about coming under ban since I no longer consider myself a JW. Hypothetically speaking, if the WT/JW religion were to come under severe ban in the USA (such as with prison sentences), I could submit a letter of Disassociation (and affirming that am irreligious and an atheist) to the elders and to the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses, and if the government asks for proof that I am not a JW I can give them a copy of my copy of the letter. In addition, the government can check the voter registration records and see that I am a registered voter, than I am a member of one of the government's political parties, and that I have voted in the government's elections for the past 10+ years.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Disillusioned JW
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Interesting fossil find in Australia
by wozza ina 95million year old fossil of a new species of crocodile found with a dinosaur in it.s stomach found story here,,,.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-12/broken-dinosaur-killer-croc-ate-dinosaur-for-last-meal/100823384?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link.
well the wts has been lying to the world .because they say no aniimal ate meat before the fairy story flood ,.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, please provide some reliable source for your claim that "virtually every Hebrew scholar in the world agrees that the language and context of the creative days in Genesis were meant to be understood as literal 24 hr. days". I ask that because my impression is that the vast majority (though not all) of modern-day Jews, (including those who have the religion called Judaism), believe/accept biological evolution and that they don't interpret much of the Hebrew Scriptures literally. For example, consider what is said at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution . It says the following.
"Biblical chronology indicates that God completed the creation of the world close to 6,000 years ago. This age is reflected in the chronology developed in a midrash, Seder Olam, but a literalist reading of the Book of Genesis is rare in Judaism. ... Most modern rabbis believe that the world is older than 6,000 years.[5] They believe such a view is needed to accept scientific theories, such as the theory of evolution. Rabbis who have this view base their conclusions on verses in the Talmud or in the midrash. ... The Rabbinical Council of America (RCA) has "maintained that evolutionary theory, properly understood, is not incompatible with belief in a Divine Creator, nor with the first 2 chapters of Genesis."[32] ... Conservative Judaism embraces science as a way to learn about the world,[citation needed] and, like Modern Orthodox and Reform Judaism, has not found the theory of evolution a challenge to traditional Jewish theology."
It thus seems to me that even if the vast majority of modern-day Hebrew scholars in the world agree that the language and context of the creative days in Genesis were meant by the ancient writer(s) to be understood as literal 24 hr. days, the vast majority of modern-day Hebrew scholars in the world don't interpret that text literally. Jewish culture adapts application of the Hebrew Scriptures to the changing society that Jews find themselves in - they change their interpretations of the Hebrew Scriptures over time. From what I have read of Jewish publications and online articles written by Jews, it seems to me that in much of Judaism it thus doesn't really matter what precise meaning the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures meant, but rather what current Jews interpret it to mean for their current day. My impression is that most modern-day religious Jews consider their Holy Hebrew Scriptures as containing much mythology that should not be interpreted as being true in a literal sense. Perhaps since Genesis is a book composed by their culture (non-Christian Jewish culture) and is thus their book, their views of what of Genesis should be interpreted to mean should be more an authority as to what it means than those of young earth creationist gentile fundamentalist Christianity. However, I can't take seriously a number of Jewish religious stories and ideas, including a number of ideas about Lilith.
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Interesting fossil find in Australia
by wozza ina 95million year old fossil of a new species of crocodile found with a dinosaur in it.s stomach found story here,,,.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-12/broken-dinosaur-killer-croc-ate-dinosaur-for-last-meal/100823384?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link.
well the wts has been lying to the world .because they say no aniimal ate meat before the fairy story flood ,.
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Disillusioned JW
Hi Sea Breeze. The idea you stated of the writer of Genesis 1:1 - 2:4 having the idea of the creative days being 24 hours long (and that analysis of the Hebrew text reveals such) is one of the key concepts (one which I learned online from a Seventh-day Adventist) which caused me to abandon belief of the biblical creation account (and by extension, belief in the Bible and in Jehovah/Yahweh God), since such a view is totally at odds and irreconcilable (at least to me) with the scientific geological (including paleontological) evidence. But, I have a question for you. Since you say " virtually every Hebrew scholar in the world agrees that the language and context of the creative days in Genesis were meant to be understood as literal 24 hr. days" what do you think of what is said at https://ncse.ngo/genesis-knows-nothing-scientific-creationism ? What is said in that article (in "Creation/Evolution Journal, Volume 4, No. 2, Spring 1983" of the National Center for Science Education) is the best reconciliation I have ever read of the Bible's creation account with science (including evolutionary science). Had I read of that article 13 years ago (or earlier) I might would remained a Christian (though not a JW), but I would have been a very non-literalist type of Christian.
What do you think of what is said at https://ncse.ngo/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark ? That article overwhelmingly makes it impossible for me to believe most of the biblical details of the story about the Ark and the associated flood, though there is some evidence for a massive local flood that wiped out lush vegetation and a human population about 9,000 to 11,000 years ago, in (or very near) what later became know as Sumeria.
What do you think of the History Channel program (I saw it two days ago on regular antenna broadcast digital TV) called "Decoding The Past: Mysteries of the Garden of Eden"? I think it makes very convincing claims.
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Disillusioned JW
How about the other big "A" - the Atom bomb? What about a nuclear fusion bomb? I don't think that such will happen as long as the USA and Russian don't directly go to war against each other. But, will they directly go to war against each other?
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Freaky, unsettling, unnerving comment from Losch in his AGM talk
by FFGhost indid anybody else catch it?.
he said that people who come back in the earthly resurrection would be given a body "reasonably similar" to the one they had prior to death.. what the almighty hootch?.
"similar"?.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding 'reasonably similar', it is actually very similar wording/idea to a very old WT teaching (except that by saying "reasonably" makes it sound the body would be potentially less similar a body than what the WT formerly said). I was taught it (the older version of the wording/idea) when I was a young child, and I read the same idea later in newer WT literature. It is described in the book (copyright 1974) by the WT called Is This Life all there is? (one of the first books my JW father studied with my sister and I) on pages 170-172. Read especially paragraph 3 of page 1971 and paragraph 1 of page 172.
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
Big news: Some Scientists and some Christian Theologians now claim to have reconciled the concept of human evolution with the story of a literal Adam and Eve! [Note: I had attempted to post this days ago (as part of an attempt to create a new topic), but the post had difficulty uploading from my computer (likely due to technical problems on my computer). After waiting days to see if it would later upload and noticing that it hadn't, I decided to post it here, thinking I that a double post will not be the result. Furthermore, the post in this topic has some revisions.]
The Fox news website (a very non-liberal news site) has an amazing news article that says that some scientists and Christian Theologians now claim to have reconciled the concept of human evolution with the story of a literal Adam and Eve as universal genealogical ancestors of all modern day humans (and even of all humans since the year 1 A.D.)! The article says in part the following. "Many Christians have rejected the scientific theory of evolution in part because they think it rules out the existence of a historical Adam and Eve. Yet some scientists and theologians argue that recent breakthroughs in genetics make a historical Adam and Eve compatible with evolution, and that this development may help bridge what many see as a conflict between faith and science." [Source: https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/christians-point-to-breakthroughs-in-genetics-to-show-adam-and-eve-are-not-incompatible-with-evolution# .] WOW! I encourage theistic evolutionists, evolutionary creationists, non-evolutionist creationists (including young Earth creationists), evolutionist atheists (including those who are ex-Christians), and others to read the news article.
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Biblical Anachronisms in JW Literature
by neat blue dog inin a recent post ffghost made a comment about how they're always inserting modern concepts into biblical narratives to make it relatable to jw's organization.
here are some that come to mind:.
- the capitalized term "governing body" when referring to the older men in jerusalem (really just another group of christians that paul outspokenly disagreed with and didn't look to for approval).
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Disillusioned JW
Sometimes in the old literature the WT said Jesus didn't have a beard because he was a young man (began his preaching at age 30, according to the Bible), but many males are capable of growing a beard at age 20 and even younger, and Jewish biblical law said Jewish males are not to cut the hair on their face! -
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
Besides the above article about a discovery by researchers at the University of Haifa there is an article about an earlier published study involving plant evolution. That earlier article is called "Study Challenges Evolutionary Theory That DNA Mutations Are Random: Findings Could Lead to Advances in Plant Breeding, Human Genetics" (see https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/study-challenges-evolutionary-theory-dna-mutations-are-random ). It says in part the following.
' “We always thought of mutation as basically random across the genome,” said Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who is lead author on the paper. “It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation.”
... Sequencing of those hundreds of Arabidopsis thaliana plants revealed more than 1 million mutations. Within those mutations a nonrandom pattern was revealed, counter to what was expected.
... Instead of randomness they found patches of the genome with low mutation rates. In those patches, they were surprised to discover an over-representation of essential genes, such as those involved in cell growth and gene expression.
... The scientists found that the way DNA was wrapped around different types of proteins was a good predictor of whether a gene would mutate or not. “It means we can predict which genes are more likely to mutate than others and it gives us a good idea of what’s going on,” Weigel said.'
These findings are amazing!
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Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils
by Disillusioned JW in"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.
the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.
modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".
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Disillusioned JW
News article: "A study by the University of Haifa researchers claims not all genetic mutations of human genes are randomized, challenging neo-Darwinism" (see https://www.jpost.com/science/article-695101 ). It in part says the following amazing thing.
"For the past century, an assumption central to Charles Darwin's evolutionary theory is that mutations are random and accidental and that natural selection favors such accidents. In an article published in the scientific peer-reviewed journal Genome Research, researchers have found the first evidence of non-random mutations in human genes.
Using a new and innovative method, the researchers - led by the University of Haifa's Prof. Adi Livnat - have managed to prove that the rate of generation of the human hemoglobin S (HbS) mutation which protects one from malaria is higher in people from Africa in contrast to people from Europe. In other words, the mutation is not random but rather exists preferentially within the population of Africa where it is more needed."
... ' "Contrary to the widely accepted expectations, the results supported the nonrandom pattern," the University of Haifa announced. "The HbS mutation originated de novo not only much faster than expected from random mutation but also much faster in the population (in sub-Saharan Africans as opposed to Europeans) and in the gene (in the beta-globin as opposed to the control delta-globin gene) where it is of adaptive significance."
These results effectively contradicted the commonly-held random mutation belief held by Darwinists.
“The results suggest that complex information that is accumulated in the genome through the generations impacts mutation, and therefore mutation-specific origination rates can respond in the long-term to specific environmental pressures,” said Prof. Livnat, whose study was funded by a grant given by the John Templeton Foundation. “Mutations may be generated nonrandomly in evolution after all, but not in the way previously conceived. We must study the internal information and how it affects mutation, as it opens the door to evolution being a far bigger process than previously conceived.” '
This is extraordinary. Two weeks ago I really doing research in a large branch of local library about what are possibly the main causes of macroevolution and if it can happen rapidly. I was researching articles from the early 1980s (some of which I read from microfilm and others from digital online archives). In two of the articles a scientist (Peter Williamson) had meticulously examined numerous fossil layers and discovers numerous step by step transitional fossils, showing speciation taking place rapidly (compared to length of geologic times) and the environmentally stressful conditions which triggered it. I was reminded of it when I read the above article. The articles were from 1981.
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Turning up The Insanity To 11
by FedUpJW inso a jw elder acquaintance sent me an email "encouraging" me to return to the organization, including this little nugget of a quote from today's wt session,*** w21 november p. 23 par.
11 how strong will your faith be?
***learn to trust those whom jehovah and jesus trust.
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Disillusioned JW
Maybe those actions by some elders mean they are seeing a mass exodus of people from their congregations and are thus trying to get people to return.